diff --git a/implementations/Elm/README.md b/implementations/Elm/README.md
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..8ad282e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/implementations/Elm/README.md
@@ -0,0 +1,10 @@
+# Joy interpreter in Elm
+
+> Simple pleasures are the best.
+
+This interpreter written in Elm is part of the Thun project.
+
+You should be able to run `elm reactor` in this directory and then
+browse to http://localhost:8000/src/Main.elm to try the interpreter.
+
+
diff --git a/implementations/Nim/README.md b/implementations/Nim/README.md
index 9799d53..be8dea1 100644
--- a/implementations/Nim/README.md
+++ b/implementations/Nim/README.md
@@ -7,47 +7,33 @@ includes interpreters written in Python and Prolog, and some explorations
 towards compilers for Joy written in Prolog.
 
 
-## Building
-
-To build an executable just run:
-
-    nim c joy.nim
-
-To build and immediately run an executable use:
-
-    nim c -r joy.nim
-
-To build a smaller binary do:
-
-    nim c -d:release joy.nim
-    strip --strip-debug joy.exe
-
-
 ## Dependencies
 
 - Nim functional programming library https://github.com/vegansk/nimfp
 - Pure Nim (i.e. not GMP) BigInts library https://github.com/def-/nim-bigints
 - ... 
 
+If you have `nimble` installed:
+
+    nimble install bigints nimfp 
+
+
+## Building
+
+To build an executable just run:
+
+    make
+
+This will copy the `implementations/defs.txt` file into the Nim project and
+compile the `joy` executable.
+
 
 ## TODOs:
 
-- link to other Thun sub-projects & info on Joy in general
 - ctrl-c should exit cleanly
 - graphics?
 - `words` and `help`?
 - How to integrate docs?
 
 
-nim cc \
--d:release \
---stackTrace:off \
---lineTrace:off \
---checks:off \
---assertions:off \
---debugger:native \
-joy.nim
 
-nim doc --project --index:on --git.url:"https://git.sr.ht/~sforman/Bliss" --git.commit:10b5651ed242fb16c29f2c1f7340d77f65926ca4 --outdir:htmldocs joy.nim
-
-https://git.sr.ht/~sforman/Bliss/tree/10b5651ed242fb16c29f2c1f7340d77f65926ca4/item/types.nim#L26
diff --git a/misc.txt b/misc.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..4e941f8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/misc.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,23 @@
+
+(I had the Python package set up to upload to PyPI as "Thun", but the
+whole Python distribution story seems unsettled at the moment (2023) so
+I've gone back to the *old ways*: there is a single script ``joy.py``
+that gets modified (``defs.txt`` is inserted) to create a ``joy`` script
+that uses the "shebang" trick to pretend to be a binary.  In other words,
+run ``make`` and put the resulting ``joy`` script in your PATH, if that's
+what you want to do.  In a year or two the Python folks will have sorted
+things out and we can go back to ``pip install Thun`` or whatever.)
+
+
+nim cc \
+-d:release \
+--stackTrace:off \
+--lineTrace:off \
+--checks:off \
+--assertions:off \
+--debugger:native \
+joy.nim
+
+nim doc --project --index:on --git.url:"https://git.sr.ht/~sforman/Bliss" --git.commit:10b5651ed242fb16c29f2c1f7340d77f65926ca4 --outdir:htmldocs joy.nim
+
+https://git.sr.ht/~sforman/Bliss/tree/10b5651ed242fb16c29f2c1f7340d77f65926ca4/item/types.nim#L26